YAOI NEWS: Digital Manga Looking to Hire Scanlators


I was tipped off to this little tidbit of news by an ‘anonymous’ source. This started to break over at the AarinFantasy forums two days ago (if you want to read the entire thread, you can do so here). Not wanting to trust what was written given the context, I emailed Digital Manga’s President Hikaru Sasahara to confirm and further clarify the details. Here’s the lowdown as I know it based on some of the information on AarinFantasy and some of the information confirmed by Mr. Sasahara:
 
DMP is working on a new ‘secret’ project for publishing more manga faster and cheaper than it is now. It would be via a digital format and they are looking to hire scanlators to help with this. Essentially, scanlators would be doing what they do now except there is the possibility of getting paid based on the sales of said manga titles they worked on. They also get to have their name on everything they translate and retain certain rights to the work they do. What rights I do not know. There is also the possibility of becoming a paid translator ‘if qualified’ and you’d be ahead of the pack when it comes to any other candidates that applied for the position.
 
Why would DMP do this? Well, based on the email response to me from Mr. Sasahara, the company feels this new “breakthrough project could bring in 100’s of manga titles from Japan without going through conventional licensing constraints”. My immediate response was to question exactly was meant by ‘without going through conventional licensing constraints” and Mr. Hikaru was kind enough to explain. In a nutshell, when a title is licensed the publisher has to pay a minimum guarantee or advanced royalty upfront upon signing a publishing contract. He stated this can range from $2000 to $5000 per title and volume. After signing the contract, the book still requires translating, lettering and distribution (among other things) before arriving on actual book shelves. Mr. Sasahara states this process can take anywhere from eight to twelve months. The problem here being that their initial advanced royalty has already been paid, tying up their capital for months before they can start to generate any revenue to cover the upfront fee, translating/lettering expenses as well as distribution costs.  It is only after all of this that they could start to make an actual profit assuming all of those costs are covered by sales of said title.
 
Mr. Sasahara goes on to say that the upfront fee is not refundable so if sales are bad, they lose money and this actually happens quite a bit due to the current economic climate. This is why they have to be careful with what they now license and “can’t gamble on any title that [they] can’t be sure of” and ‘the titles are very much bottlenecked”. He feels with their new “breakthrough concept” that they will be able to put out a higher concentration of titles at a lesser cost but he is reluctant to discuss this concept further at this time.
 
My initial thought was that this all would be discussed at Anime Expo since Digital Manga’s recent email about the convention touts “a brand new exclusive venture Digital Manga Publishing is doing in tandem with another major manga publisher”. A follow up email clarified that this may be a bit premature and that the official announcement could be at YaoiCon. Personally, I wouldn’t rule out hearing about it at Anime Expo but that’s just my opinion.
 
Mr. Sasahara did want to make the following point clear,
 
“we are not advocating the scanlation nor justifying it. We are simply asking for their help for our next big and “legal” project that could somehow ease off their frustration of not being able to read as many manga as they want.”
 
So what is the scanlation community thinking about all of this? Well, as you can imagine they are skeptical and clearly wary of this being a trap of some sort. Honestly, I do not see this as any sort of trap to lure out scanlators regardless of the recent banding together of U.S. and Japanese manga publishers against them. This would be a terrible marketing blunder for Digital Manga and would certainly hurt their sales if they somehow tried to ‘turn in’ scanlators in this manner. The other issue for the scanlation community seems to be the fact that DMP would not pay them until they started generating revenue and only IF they generated revenue.
 
Begin personal commentary:
 
Honestly, some of the comments over on the AarinFantasy forum to me were laughable. As far as I’m concerned, they should be paid the same revenues they, as scanlators, paid to the authors and publishers of all the scanlations they did. There was one specific comment that literally made me blow a gasket on twitter. I’ll let you come to your own conclusions:
 
“…as good as this might sounds, what they are asking for is speculative work. If you don't know what spec work is, that's something you seriously need to understand as a freelancer. In a nutshell, DMP is asking you to work for free with the promise of being paid later, based on the popularity of the manga you work on–something neither you nor DMP are able to control.

This is spec work and that is bullshit.

You are providing a service to them and you should be paid for that service regardless of the manga's success because the job required of you (translating, typsetting, etc) is already done. They're looking for cheap labor and it's a lot cheaper to do it this way than it is to pay a professional translator or graphic designer per project or on salary.”

 
Really? I want to highlight this specific sentence: “You are providing a service to them and you should be paid for that service regardless of the manga’s success because the job required of you (translating, typesetting, etc) is already done.”
 
If I recall correctly, when a scanlator scanlates a title, the author and artist already did their work… where is their pay? Don’t they have a right to be “paid for that service regardless of the manga’s success” as in, even if it isn’t successful enough to be published in the U.S. or other countries, they should still get paid?
 
So what do you think? Is DMP being revolutionary in their thinking or are they merely creating a situation that would cause more people to want to become scanlators defeating the purpose of trying to make them legit? Do scanlators have any right to be wary, skeptical or pissed off? I welcome all comments whether you agree with me or not. I do expect comments to be respectful of all views and flaming will not be tolerated.
 
~Jennifer LeBlanc



127 Comments

  • uh I think they should just hire interns if they want cheap labor! At least this way they know what they are doing instead of getting any joe smoe off the internet. June’s quality is already lacking in may areas so if you end up hiring people who self taught how to scanlate that would just make the quality of their work even worse than it already is.

    Basically, as mentioned, although you eventually will get paid for your work … its probably not as much as a regular employee will get paid which is not really fair because the same time and effort is put in. Also, people who scanlate don’t give a crap about the money so I doubt they really care to work for a company with official “deadlines” even if they do end up getting paid.

    However, there are people who offer services such as translations for money. This we call translations for commissions you can find a site where people sign up to advertise themselves to do xzy work for xyz cost. I forget what the site is called but it was posted on baka-manga’s site before. Most likely these are the people DMP should be targeting to help them with their new project.

    I just feel like it sounds like they want cheap labor and the result might be poor quality coming our way.

    [Reply to this comment]

    Jennifer LeBlanc AKA Asami's Girl Reply:

    You have a point about the deadlines. It certainly would be more structured and there is reporting to a company. Not the same as doing it for fun.

    [Reply to this comment]

  • Huh, this puts things in a different light. I don’t think that what the scanlators are saying about this is unreasonable. If a company wishes to hire them to do work for profit, then they should be paid for that work regardless of what the company makes as a result of that work.

    There’s a difference between doing something for free because you want to share it with other fans, and being hired for a job. Seriously, would you want some magazine or paper, say USAToday, to hire you to write columns on yaoi but only pay you if they proved to be popular? I don’t know about you, but if some corporation made me that offer I’d say f*** that.

    [Reply to this comment]

    Jennifer LeBlanc AKA Asami's Girl Reply:

    It’s called sales. :-) I’ve worked in sales for years and I was paid on what I sold, 100% commission. This is not exactly a new concept. Plus there are blog sites that are based on traffic and the blogger is paid on how much traffic comes to their site. The more popular the topic, the more they’re going to make.

    [Reply to this comment]

    sunflower Reply:

    That’s not comparable though. Sales are rewarded according to effort. Here the same effort would not be rewarded accordingly. I could “scanlate” something as popular as VF and make a ton of money, while someone else is given a series by Moto Hagio that will have fewer readers and they might even put in more effort, yet not make the same salary. That’s not commission. That’s unfair business practices.

    And what blog site pays its employees based upon traffic? Yes, blog owners may make money based on traffic. And site members might get bonuses based upon traffic, but employees for any blog company have a base salary, and bonuses are the same throughout the company for equitable positions. Here, people would be doing the same work and have no control over the circumstances that would make them more money. I’d never take that deal in any other situation.

    [Reply to this comment]

    Jennifer LeBlanc AKA Asami's Girl Reply:

    I was responding to your question:

    Seriously, would you want some magazine or paper, say USAToday, to hire you to write columns on yaoi but only pay you if they proved to be popular?

    That question really wasn’t comparable either. Yes I agree it depends on the title but it also depends on the quality of the translation. Bad translation WILL lead to poor sales of said title. Plus since this is ‘in the works’ they could always negotiate to have some say in what titles they translate. I think poopooing and idea without even discussing the possibilities with the person presenting said idea is naive and a lot of scanlators are doing that. Email can be anonymous… email DMP and ask about the possibilities. Again, I have years in sales. I know I can walk into any sales job interview and negotiate my terms if I don’t like them. I won’t get anywhere without discussion first. This could be a really good opportunity for some.

    [Reply to this comment]

    sunflower Reply:

    A really terrible translation will affect sales, but then again, look at how well Only the Ring Finger Knows novels vols 1-2 sold. They had the worst translation I’ve read and they were still really popular, because of the original work they were based on.

    I’m not a scanlator. It’s up to them if they want to take up this offer or discuss it. I’m just saying that as it’s presented, I sure wouldn’t take it.

    [Reply to this comment]

    Jennifer LeBlanc AKA Asami's Girl Reply:

    Well, OTRFK was one of the first if not the first novel translated and I think the sales reflect the newness of it at that time. That bad translation affected other titles being purchased and I base this on the numerous comments I’ve read over time that specifically names the awful translation of OTRFK as the reason for not wanting to buy more novels from DMP without seeing a marked improvement. Luckily they did improve but I never purchased OTRFK specifically because of the translation and bad fan comments.

    It’s up to the scanlators to decide what they want to do but I don’t think they should just dismiss it without a proper discussion with DMP. The only way DMP would consider providing a better offer is if the masses spoke out against the offer in the first place. Pissing and moaning about it on a site thread and not saying anything to DMP gets nothing accomplished for either party.

    [Reply to this comment]

    Amber Barth Reply:

    You know, this is basically how the publishing industry works in general. If you where a normal book author, you could negotiate an advance, but that is always against sales. Once the money for your books comes in and the advance is deducted, you start earning royalties. Don’t sell enough books to pay back the advance, you don’t get royalties and a publisher would think twice about publishing your book in the future.

    Just saying ^_^

    [Reply to this comment]

    sunflower Reply:

    But that’s you being the creator. You’re responsible for creating the entire product. What they’re doing is akin to saying the *editor* of the book only gets paid if the book sells, and you know that’s just not true.

    [Reply to this comment]

    mango Reply:

    Hello :)

    I just wanted to comment about books sales.

    I’m an editor for a few scanlation groups and to be honest there are some titles that one person might like and many other will not however that does not reflect my work as an editor. So god forbid this was a job and I got stuck on a title or with an artist that no one really cares for but my work as an editor is great but the sales only reflect that no one likes the series itself them I don’t think it’s fair that I get paid for the sale of the book when it’s not my fault that the art is ugly and no one wants to buy it or if the storyline is not that appealing and no one wants to buy it.

    Commission just isn’t fair because this is a nichie product and it’s not my fault the company licensed a title no one wants to buy and it’s not that my work was bad it’s just because not a lot of people cared for the title itself that there is no sales.

    When I buy my books I only buy it because I like the art and even if its a great publisher with great quality paper/translation/editing skills like dramaqueen that doesn’t mean I’ll go buying all their books because I actually don’t like 90% of the titles and artist they license and its not their employees fault that the books aren’t being purchased but it’s the companies fault for licensing the title when they aren’t sure if it will sell.

    I don’t know if you understand anything I’m trying to say but in the American manga industry there is always risk in licensing titles that will not be popular and you can’t predict the sales hence commission style of employment doesn’t work for this industry and if people think they want to give it a try then go for it, but if you get stuck with a title that will not sell simply because no one wants to read it then good luck.

    [Reply to this comment]

    Jb Reply:

    But what’s the difference in scanlating it and releasing it in the wild ‘for free’ (which earns no money for the manga-ka at all) vs scanlating it to legally release with the possibility of earning a little something for both you and the manga-ka?

    Other than the right to pick an artist you like to work on and a possibly stricter deadline, {and the legality of it}, I’m not sure I see much of a difference. *is confused*

    I guess I always thought the main goal of most scanlators was to support the manga-ka and get them noticed for a possible license.

    [Reply to this comment]

    mango Reply:

    I’m not talking about free scanlations … I’m talking about fair trade. When you work and do the same amount of work as someone else don’t you expect to be paid the same?

    Yes. free scanlations idea is to introduce the world to particular artist and series but we don’t make profit nor do we wan to make profit. We just like sharing mangas from Japan to American and one the side we do hope it gets licensed and reach a further crowd.

    Just because we work for free doesn’t mean DMP can pray on this fact and use our labor and pay us scraps. I can see you don’t work in the real world? Well if you start working for a company you will see time is money and with the time wasted editing or translating while not getting paid the industry standard is just dumb.

    [Reply to this comment]

    Jb Reply:

    I can see you don’t work in the real world? Well if you start working for a company you will see time is money and with the time wasted editing or translating while not getting paid the industry standard is just dumb.

    Yes, I work full time. In the ‘real’ world. Yes I know time is money. You already put in the time for scanlations, earning no money currently. So, my question was legitimate. Please don’t answer my reasonable question with a sarcastic reply that seems like a personal attack.

    [Reply to this comment]

    lore Reply:

    In the real world, DMP is going to put out a call for scanlators. There will be terms to read and paperwork to sign. I would hardly call this “preying” on the scanlators. You make it sound as if DMP is looking for slaves. No one is going to twist a scanlator’s arm to do this.

    Also, in the real world, scanlating is illegal and you make no money on it while stealing from the publishers and mangaka, yet you continue to do it with little fear of the law. So who’s not working in the real world here?

    [Reply to this comment]

    mango Reply:

    I don’t need to justify my standings because it’s obviously not getting through to anyone.

    You are subject to your own opinion and as I am to mine. As a scanlator I don’t agree with what DMP is trying to propose.

    If you are a scanlator and you want to work for them then go do it no one is stopping you. I’m just simply here giving an input from a scanlators point of view that just because we work for free as an enjoyment, if we wanted to get paid for our skills and make money off of it we shouldn’t be getting paid less then what a normal DMP employee would “just because we simply do it for free anyway”.

    If you are NOT a scanlator I can see why you are rooting for this plan because hey more chapters will get released right? It’s just prejudice opinions then from a readers prospective who doesn’t know how much it takes to scanlate and again because we do it for free some people might want to make a living out of it and we shouldn’t be taken advantage of just because we already do it for free.

    IF YOU ARE A SCANLATOR AND YOU WANT TO WORK FOR THEM AND YOU THINK IT’S SOOOOO GREAT THEN GO FOR IT! BUT DON’T FREAKEN TELL ME WHAT I DO IS ILLEGAL BECAUSE IT’S OFF-TOPIC! I’M JUST TRYING TO SAY THEIR PAY SYSTEM IS UNFAIR AS COMPARED TO A REGULAR EMPLOYEE WHO DOES THE SAME WORK AND GETS PAID SALARY AND NOT PER SALE FOR THE SAME WORK DONE.

    God people always take things out of content. I don’t need to respond any further to this topic because I already gave my opinion on the matter and I can care less how you view it because I’m not telling you NOT to work for them I’m just suggesting that they are trying to rip you off with bad pay and work upfront.

    Also, as a scanlator, I do this as a hobby for fun and because I want to! Once it changes from a hobby to a job then it’s a different story because if it’s a job I expect fair pay, but if I do it for free because I want to then I don’t expect pay out of it.

    I don’t steal! I simply help others understand the culture, arts and language of another country. Do you think people would even read mangas in the first place if they never read a scanlation in their life. People don’t just one day walk by comic books and think “hey let me buy that and read it”. Why I say this? It’s because comic books in America is known for children and Adults don’t usually buy comic books so they don’t know how different a manga is from an American comic book, unless they found out by reading a scanlation of an adult manga.

    Also, do you think so many people would know any of these joe smoe Japanese artist if it wasn’t for us scanlators introducing and scanlating their work? You think what you want but scanlation revolutionized the manga industry in American and all other countries outside of Japan who can’t read Japanese and would have never known about manga without scanlations.

    Another thing … Scanlators BUY OUR OWN RAW FROM JAPAN!!!! That’s money going into their pockets. People don’t buy RAWS because people can’t read Japanese. So in this point of view no matter how much scanlation exist Japanese publishers can’t lose a lot of income form otusiders because people don;t buy books in a language they don’t read in the first place. The only thing I can remotely as to why they lose money is because that their own people in Japan don’t buy their books. They should be suing the Japanese people anybody else because we have nothing to do with their income flow! You must think if there were no scanlation that people would hop to buy the Japanese book but I highly doubt it. You can’t enjoy something you can’t read can you?

    You talk so much smack about scanlation and how we are stealing, but don’t tell me you don’t read it at all.

    A lot of people are hypocrites … You read it but you say its bad while all we are trying to do is allow people outside of Japan to understand mangas and enjoy them. About 50 different BL titles get published a month and god knows how many shoujo and shounen mangas get published in Japan (maybe hundreds per month) but in America you only get about 10 licensed BL titles and released so when will Americans get to read all those Japanese mangas?

    Well you do the math and you wait eternity to read something that was published 5-10 years ago from Japan … Oh and as for the non-popular artist, it’s very hard to tell if anyone will license their work because no one wants to risk not being able to sell? Will it ever make it’s debut in American probably not. So is it sooooo wrong to try to share this artist’s wonderful work to the world?

    Anyways I can’t keep arguing with people who has their own opinions on this topic and if you are a scanlator and you want to make some side cash then do it!

    [Reply to this comment]

    Tina Anderson Reply:

    I think we can all holster the hostility now. So there’s a scanslator out there who doesn’t like what DMP is offering – she’s entitled to do that. Expressing our opinion either pro or con about DMP offering backend peanuts to scanslators is something we’re entitled to do – but I think it’s wrong for any of us to demand to know ‘what’s your problem?’ of any scanslator when it technically doesn’t involve us, or does it?

    Are some of us biased towards DMP’s offer because it will get us titles faster? Scanslating is a form of fan expression – money is not always the motivating factor.

    Can we please back off each other here?

    [Reply to this comment]

    Cait Reply:

    Tina is right, but seriously, if it is off-topic for the discussion it is off-topic for the discussion and the response could have been handled much much better. This is now a hostile environment and that is not cool.

    Scanlations ARE illegal, whatever their justification.

    People ARE entitled to their opinion and no one should be able to tell them not to express it.

    And most importantly, no one speaks for everyone else, not even within their group or circle. Scanlators are not all the same, manga fans are not all the same and BL fans are not all the same. I never read a scanlation in my life until several years into my interest in BL, I do buy books blind, and I am not the only one.

    Let’s try to calm down, please?

    [Reply to this comment]

    Jennifer LeBlanc AKA Asami's Girl Reply:

    “And most importantly, no one speaks for everyone else…”

    This is where you’d be wrong. I speak for everyone. XD *ducks back out of the thread before the beatings commence*

    [Reply to this comment]

    Cait Reply:

    You!

    *shakes fist in exaggerated fashion*

    [Reply to this comment]

    Jennifer LeBlanc AKA Asami's Girl Reply:

    “People don’t buy RAWS because people can’t read Japanese.”

    That’s not even remotely correct. I know many people who buy raws including myself. I have BeBoy Gold shipped straight from Japan when a new issue is released. I can’t read Japanese, I don’t know what they’re saying but I don’t read scanlations so this is what I do to support them over there and to see what’s new from my favorite mangaka. I can say with a high level of certainty that all of the people I call yaoi friends have at least one raw from Japan. I know because we’ve discussed them.

    I welcome your opinion here since you are on the other side of my own stance and I’m more than open to hearing what you have to say but don’t assume and you need to take a breath and relax before you post. If you feel like you’re being attacked, say so politely to the person. I’ll deal with it. I read all the comments and I have the final say as to what stays on my site and what doesn’t. I don’t play favorites here. :-)

    [Reply to this comment]

    Cait Reply:

    Except with me, right? I’m your favorite. Me and my cum tsunamis. XD

    Incidentally, I also buy “RAWS” from Japan, but I usually call them the “original Japanese manga” or “tankoban.” And, no, I can’t read Japanese either, but I want to support the mangaka I love and I love to have books in my hands and look at pretty pictures and try to decipher kana and all the great feelings that well up from contributing to something meaningful (ie, money) to the medium.

    [Reply to this comment]

    aerliss Reply:

    Jumping in a little late, I know… been on holiday.

    I can’t quote directly, as I’m using my phone but you said something akin to ‘no one would buy manga if it weren’t for scanlators. No one walls into a store and randomly buys manga for the first time.’

    Erm… not sure how manga was first introduced to the West, but I read manga long before I even had access to the internet.

    Also, superhero comics may be considered childish by some, but no one could call the likes of Sandman or Lucifer anything but ‘adult’ material.

    Yeah a bit off topic *hides from LeBlanc* but I needed to say it.

    [Reply to this comment]

    Michalyn Reply:

    I think it’s really naive to think that corporations are looking out for worker’s interests. The costs of aquiring a title aren’t just about upfront fees etc. They extend to worker’s contracts and all the expenses related to ensuring that workers are justly compensated under the law.

    It does not matter that scanslators are producing work at no visible cost. Right now scanslators are producing scans “for free” and are selling them for free, so there is no opportunity for anybody to be exploited. There is no doubt in my mind that DMP is not just trying to get around the usual publishing legalize, but the usual legalese involved with hiring etc. If they’re proposing legalizing scans then they have to extend that to how they compensate scanslators–regardless of what these people’s activities were before. Even jobs based on commission have some base salary however abysmal that base salary might be.

    At the end of the day people seem to be forgetting that DMP is the one with the most to lose here and most to gain from this new scheme. It is extremely difficult to legally pursue scanslations. I am sure they could send cease and desist letters but the problem is 90% of the yaoi manga on the market would not exist if they did not have the testing ground of scanned manga. The yaoi manga market is not so developed that DMP can afford to kill off that kind of direct “focus group”.

    I buy yaoi manga and i read unlicensed scans and I’m not condoning illegal activities but i would not advise anyone to get into any sort of agreement like this with a corporation without seriously consulting a lawyer first.

    [Reply to this comment]

    Jennifer LeBlanc AKA Asami's Girl Reply:

    “Even jobs based on commission have some base salary however abysmal that base salary might be.”

    Rarely. I’ve worked years in commission sales for 100% commission, which means no base.

    “i would not advise anyone to get into any sort of agreement like this with a corporation without seriously consulting a lawyer first.”

    Anytime you sign an employment agreement you should consult an attorney if you do not understand what you are signing. That’s just sound advice all around. :-)

    [Reply to this comment]

  • I’m sure I’ll be mentally stoned for this by someone, or there’ll be some viable argument against it, but actually, it sounds like a good proposition to me if some of the scanlators get on board.

    There are some scanlators that produce pretty quality work. If the choice is to scanlate and perhaps receive a little money for it, or not scanlate at all because the coalition is about to come down on your head, then the ‘for some profit’ angle seems a viable option. And, that way, the scanlators are actually doing what they have always claimed in the past – helping the manga-ka.

    More books by their beloved artists might be made available to English speaking audiences, which means theoretically more revenue for said artists. And if it brings the cost down for the general public by using ‘cheap labor’, then more people might be willing to actually spend a little per chapter.

    Arguably, Netcomics translations/edit/quality control job is nothing spectacular. I’ve read a few of theirs that had errors. But, at 25 cents a chapter, I’m willing to overlook that.

    The only thing that might be a snag, imo, would be imposed time limits, given that some scanlation groups only release sporadically due to real life commitments, and the fickleness of some staff (translators, editors, etc) to stay with a project and not ‘disappear’.

    In the end though, as much as the public scream that the publishers need to ‘change to accomodate the age of digital’, I think scanlators need to change as well.

    [Reply to this comment]

    Amber Barth Reply:

    “The only thing that might be a snag, imo, would be imposed time limits, given that some scanlation groups only release sporadically due to real life commitments, and the fickleness of some staff (translators, editors, etc) to stay with a project and not ‘disappear’. ”

    Too true. Then again they would be working for money. This wouldn’t necessarily be a part-time hobby but more of a pocket change endeavor. This would be a job that they could put on resumes, too. That is, of course, that they continue to follow through with their commitments and meet deadlines. Almost all jobs have some sort of deadline that must be met. That’s part of working.

    [Reply to this comment]

    Tina Anderson Reply:

    But Amber, they’re being paid backend. :/

    They’re not getting paid up front as most production staff does, and should. Unpaid interns do what they do for ‘that resume credit’ but this is a weird form of ‘editorial doujinshi’. These women have jobs and lives and can afford to keep scanslating as a ‘hobby’. Some are damn good at it, and if they’re going to forgo real life responsibilities and adhere to ‘deadlines’, then a production wage is the only way to ensure that happens.

    ^_^

    Trust me, I know from the second-hand experiences of my editor friend at DQ. She relied on some freelance translators and editors and art cleaners– people doing it for the credit or the fandom–without pay. This lasted all of a few titles, because no one met their deadlines when real life came calling because there was no coin in there pocket to keep them on track.

    No matter what your motivation, when it comes to making a business out of your passions– bills still have to be paid and money must be earned, or no deadline is taken seriously.

    [Reply to this comment]

    Cait Reply:

    This is true. I think the best way for DMP to ensure a compromise is for a payment (probably one lower than that of professionals) to be promised, regardless of sales, but that that payment be delayed until after the work is in distribution (a few months, perhaps). That way DMP can free up capital and still get the product out earlier, but that the scanlators working on the products still have incentive to be professional and keep their deadlines. It might also work better on a per-chapter basis rather than per-volume, as chapters can get cranked out a lot faster than whole books. Digital distribution (like what Netcomics does) then becomes a more viable and profitable option.

    But it seems it would defeat the effort for them to pay this money upfront since what they seem to want is to reduce the upfront cost of production that is delaying title releases right now. Time will tell what actually comes to pass from this endeavor, though.

    [Reply to this comment]

    Tina Anderson Reply:

    Hi Cait.

    That’s what a production wage is – you get paid something when you turn something in. ^_^

    I think only big NY publishing houses actually pay advances to authors without having a manuscript in hand. Wow– it would be a wonderful manga-world if all pubs did that. LOL!

    I agree with you though, even a small-scale fee schedule for work completed is better then asking for a completed project and not paying out until a quarter of sales have accumulated.

    [Reply to this comment]

    Cait Reply:

    I suppose “upfront” was the wrong choice of words, as of course they wouldn’t get paid until the work was actually done. XD

    I meant more that the payment would be delayed until after the product was in distribution, something like a few months later to help build capital from sales in order to cover that expense, but that, yes, they would still be guaranteed some sort of payment (arranged in advance). The sooner the product is finished, the sooner it can go into distribution and the sooner they can get paid out being the incentive.

    [Reply to this comment]

    Amber Barth Reply:

    Actually there are a number of magazines that pay “upon publication” (some only pay in copies x_x). If the magazine flops, the author doesn’t get paid. It’s a horrible setup that I refuse work with but many young, budding authors who are trying to get their foot in the door do. This is how many established authors started out. Yes, we are talking about translators and not actual authors, but the idea works the same for almost any career. Unpaid labor in exchange for education, connections, and professional experience.

    Yes, I admit that being payed only royalties seems unfair. Then again, so is being an unpaid intern. All they work for is college credit. Perhaps that’s what DMP needs to do: set up some sort of platform where they can supply college students who are enrolled in some sort of journalism, English, etc. class to earn college credit on top of royalties.

    And just for the record, online IS real life ;) It may not seem like it, but it is. This is a crazy world we live in.

    [Reply to this comment]

  • this sounds like a try at control and bait to me. they’re trying another method to control the scanlators out there by waving a treat of “legal” and “money” but in the end its just them trying to gain profit for cheap work while trying to gain more control over scanlations.

    i don’t think its necessarily a bad thing for them to try but the snag comes that you have to trust a company with all the evils and legalities of a company. once a scanlator signs up with them i’d be surprised if somewhere in the contract it doesn’t state that any manga work they do is somehow owned or has to be approved by the company which would put large amount of scanlators “out of work” when it came to doing anything for free outside DMP.

    plus i can see huge issues with project choice and deadlines etc. there’s no way that the scanlators who do get signed aren’t going to have to deal with all the pros and cons of the regular workplace and yet they might be doing it all for free.

    i’d be really leery of this type of deal.

    [Reply to this comment]

  • Honestly, I see this going about as well as Tokyopop’s attempts at extorting wanna-be manga creators a few years back. Not in the way DMP is going about it, but in the way it will actually prove viable and successful.

    The quality will be poor, only a handful of scanlators (who are any good) will even apply to begin with and the releases will probably be as sporadic as they are now. Toshiba tried to do the whole “non-professional translators” doing the work for a promise of payment as revenue comes in, but it failed miserably, and mostly because they couldn’t get licenses for titles that anyone wanted to pay money to read. We have to be realistic about that.

    I think DMP could profit from reaching out to scanlators and working together, but not on commercial properties. I could see this being a boon to the legal release of doujinshi (and by that I mean self-published works, not works featuring the copyrighted properties of other artists). I’m thinking about artists like Kano Miyamoto, who has a huge back-catalogue of self-published tie-ins to her commercial properties that were never published by any of the major publishers in Japan. Books that wouldn’t be profitable to release here as paper volumes, but might do very well to replace, on a pay-per-view basis, the scanlation groups who currently translate them in English.

    Either way, it will be interesting to see what comes of DMP’s pursuit in this matter and what other major publisher they are planning to work with (my money is on Dark Horse, whom they already have a professional relationship with) and just how much this is going to directly affect their BL manga publishing. I don’t want to see scanlators working on a per-title basis on major authors’ works, forcing titles I want to own in print into the Netcomics-style “online-only” format. I’m still peeved that the third volume of Roureville will probably never be in print.

    [Reply to this comment]

  • I’m sure there are lots of details to be worked out. There will be some ups & downs.

    However if the publisher has the patience to refine the process I expect that this could be very successful for all parties. Notably the scanlators, have already mastered multilingual and global collaboration using chat, email, Twitter, Ning and whatever. No cost to the publisher to establish these business methods. The technical infrastructure is there and in use and is very flexible.

    To be utterly successful this also needs matching online delivery service. They need something — like what the aggregators do now — so readers can go to read or download the issue. Or they set up apps for iPad, droid etc. By my lights they should only go to paper for the cases they know work them now.

    But to repeat, they need to be willing to refine the approach as they go and have patience to make it work. Then they will be the pathfinders that everyone else will follow.

    [Reply to this comment]

    Jennifer LeBlanc AKA Asami's Girl Reply:

    Thank you for being a voice of reason. :-) This is in its early stages and I think communication between DMP and scanlators is required so it can be beneficial for both sides. It is in DMP’s best interests to make any necessary changes to the agreement otherwise they won’t have the number of scanlators they require for such an endeavor. It doesn’t hurt to talk at this point.

    [Reply to this comment]

    Steve-san Reply:

    I agree, it is the discussion among interested parties that will reveal exactly how this is to work out. I’ll definitely be following along to see what happens.

    [Reply to this comment]

  • I’m not sure about how this will work.

    Are they going for the online version only or do they later plan on putting them into print into limited editions? I did an internship at a small press and they typically do print runs of 1k-5k books.

    Japan has a massive amount of manga. There is some manga that are cult favorites that will never make it into print elsewhere either for the content, the length, or the age of the series (how many series have we seen that were published before the 90′s that’s been licensed in the states?).

    In BL I can name about a dozen lengthly series that will never seen print because the US companies won’t risk it. Koori (Ice Cold Demon’s Tale) is 24 volumes long, Bronze/Zetsuai is 25 (both series combined), we have manga-ka like Kano Miyamoto who do a series then do a bunch of self-published sequels, prequels, and sidestories that won’t see print here.

    We also have companies who pick up licenses and never print them or screw it up so badly that no on will buy them. ADV stopped doing Kurogane Peacemaker because of that. Tokyopop picked up both it and its sequel.

    And let’s forget the hassle that BeBeautiful caused in which Libre used the might of the fans to bring down the company.

    There is a lot of reasons as to why scans are popular and sales are down. There is price issues. I just can’t afford to buy a volume of every single series I’m interested in. My cash is strapped and lately I’ve been buying used volumes to pick up series I like but I know that the publisher and artist will never see a dime of that money I spent.

    There is also the trust issue. I’ve been burned before. I’ve loved series that have been cult favorites, not very good sales, and I bought up every volume that was put out until they canceled it. Get Backers is just one series I’ve been burned on.

    I’ve have series that are on long hiatus like Saiyuki (why the hell hasn’t Reload v10 been printed yet? What about the prequels and sequel?).

    Oh and let’s not even talk about the translation quality. I STILL have Tokyo Mew Mew from Tokyopop and it is laughable at the quality they used then in comparison to the awesome work they did on Saiyuki.

    Have you seen any of the wank wars that have been caused in scanlations on words and phrases in the series? I have. 07-Ghost is just one of them in which people bitched left and right over certain phrases and whether transliteration or literal translation was the best. Then there is also Amatsuki in which the translator needs to understand the history and culture of what is being discussed because there is a LOT of deeper meaning going on.

    The vast majority of manga I read I just want to read. I don’t want to buy. If we had a online library that had the books I would just check it out and return it. Some series I love and I buy up the books, anime, and merchandise.

    DMP is the only company doing BL Novles and they stopped Only the Ring Finger Knows. I barely got one of the last copies of book 4 and they told me they won’t do book 5. No one touches novels because of the massive amount of translation involved and I think more companies should focus on it since scans won’t touch it and fans do like it (maybe not massive sells but they still sell).

    I don’t know.

    We’ve been burned before, many times, because of low sales, bad translations, mismangement of the title, the high prices (why have the quality of the books paper gone down but the price keeps rising? WE ARE IN A FUCKING RECESSION NOT EVERYONE CAN AFFORD THESE PRICES!), etc…and we just turn to the scans to keep up on the series.

    The recent team-up of publishers has been focused only on the US scan groups and it seems to be the for-profits ones and the aggregators. A lot of people are upset that they are only focused on the US side when we know that Scans is international in many languages… Hey at least we aren’t like Korea and China and ripping off titles and selling them.

    Maybe if the pubs took sites like onemanga and mangafox legit like CrunchyRoll and Hulu and such they would still see money come in through ads, the fans reading, fans like me finding series that area awesome and then buy up the series. I picked up Kuroshitsuji (Black Butler), Pandora Hearts, and Alice in the Country of Hearts just a few days ago (being shipped to me as we speak) and I only found out about those series through the aggregators. I NEVER would have bought these series based on just seeming them in some bookstore. Not to mention I no longer have a book store that sells manga so all my buying is online and I go by mangaka I know and series I’ve read before and loved.

    I think the main thing that people are upset about is being taken advantage of. Tokyopop’s oel line…a lot of people were bitching about losing their rights to their creation and Tokyopop making edits and so forth and then they dropped some really good titles.

    Hetalia is a series that is soley supported by online fans. It was a webcomic that was translated into scans and dispersed worldwide, then it was made into a manga, then an anime, and now it has been licensed. People are very worried about how the series will be treated because US companies have a tendency to CENSOR and make EDITS and that pisses the fans off very much.

    1/2 Prince is another one. It was fan novel made into a manga. There is a translation of the novels being made by fans on a blog with the mangaka’s support because no company will pick it up. We may never see it in print because of copyright issues, it was a fanfiction first that later went more original fiction.

    There is geniune worry about June getting View Finder because of the graphic nature of the series and they don’t want it to be censored. They like the fact that it is a very mature title with lots and lots of graphic sex, violence, and language. They think that 801 should have picked it up instead of June. And they won’t think it wrong to boycott titles if the company screws it up.

    When a company picks up a license we tend to think, rightly, that the company will do the fans right and make sure there are NO translation errors, and that will keep to the original content of the series like keeping the honorifics, providing translation notes for words and phrases that don’t translate into English well instead of half-assing it. We expect them to listen to our wants (look at the scans, they are higher quality because that is what fans demand, the English scans for Naruto don’t call it the replication technique for a reason, the fans like it being called the Bushin no Jutsu same for Genin, sensei, Kyuubi (not 9 tails fox), etc.

    We expect the professionals to care about the titles and not ‘screw it up’.

    Like I’ve said, we’ve been burned before. English dubs of anime is just another reason we are distrustful of US companies licensing favorite sries. Believe It! versus Dattebayo! is just one reason that we tend to like Original Japanese with subtitles versus the dubs. I don’t even watch the dubs on the dvs just the Japanese with subtitles.

    We are distrustful, we don’t believe they can do quality jobs, we are afraid they will censor things and make edits that will change the feel of the series, we believe they don’t care about our favorite series and are just thinking about making money, and with this…we feel they will just be making money off of the scanlators work.

    Not to mention that scanlators usually work full-time jobs or are students and they fork over a lot of their money, time, and effort for the love the series. The only reason they’ve been adding ads to their sites is to stay in business because of the recession and not being able to pay the server bills. Ads are the quickest way to make up the difference and keep them around. Server bills are extremely expensive for sites like onemanga and mangafox and certain scan site because of the massive amount of traffic.

    Only Tazmo is the one I know who charges for scans and that was for the ability to use the server to do direct downloads and this was back when everything was on mirc before the big move to direct downloads and online which rose in opposition to Tazmo.

    Be it right or wrong that is how the fans feel.

    [Reply to this comment]

  • First off– if I like scanslators or scanslations here is not the issue. :) So I’m not going to make it one. What bothers me about this?

    Doujinshi creators self-produce their own material. Work goes into it, it’s ours and we don’t wave a magic wand and voila–the work appears. So when I hear from a pub that wants to ‘produce my work’ I want to make sure I’m properly compensated for that work.

    Scanslators are DIY editors/localizationists. They came to prominence when there was no American publisher around bringing over books from Japan. Now they’re still around–and everyone hates them. :/ As if to ask, how dare you still be here when [COMPANY XYZ] is giving us comics in English? Why do they do it? The same reason they did it before companies began licensing—they love editing/localizing. Seriously–there are people out there that just love the game of producing the product. So DMP comes along and says– ‘hey, come work for us and we’ll pay you backend’.

    No offense but…what editor with a college degree would take a job editing based on sales of the book? If DMP is serious about hiring Scanslators–then they should pay them as they would any editor, translator, art clean-up, and type setter. BL scanslators have the added incentive of KNOWING THE PRODUCT more then any college educated version of any of the above…and some scanslators have been doing it a little longer then DMP’s been producing BL. :/

    I feel strongly that perhaps the time of BL scanslators has passed – perhaps scanslators should regulate themselves to projects that are ‘ani-paro’ specific, and leave the original content material to publishers that can afford to pay the Japanese mangaka for her work– but asking scanslators to work gratis in lieu of payment just feels wrong. You wouldn’t ask a professional production person to do this…so why ask a seasoned DIY production person to do this?

    [Reply to this comment]

    darks Reply:

    thank you.

    [Reply to this comment]

    lore Reply:

    Question – What is “ani-paro”?

    Also, there seems to be a tone of scanlator appreciation here. If you read scanlations, you’re going to appreciate the scanlators, I get it.

    I read scanlations, but I’m aware that they represent a catch-22 in the industry – they help spread the word about mangas while also causing a drain on the industry.

    If scanlators want to take a chance on being paid out of profits, that’s great! More for us to read. And if they don’t, then they just don’t apply for the job and keep up their own volunteer scanlating. I’m not sure why there’s such a big fuss about this idea.

    [Reply to this comment]

    Tina Anderson Reply:

    @lore

    Ani-pari is anime parody doujinshi. The kind fans in america are most familiar with. Doujinshi is ANYTHING self-published [comics, games, stationary, fan-goods, novels] with appeal to the anime or manga fandom.

    “Also, there seems to be a tone of scanlator appreciation here. If you read scanlations, you’re going to appreciate the scanlators, I get it.”

    No I don’t read scanslations actually. I’ve been quite vocal about my dislike of them – it’s why they were never linked to or mentioned when I ran GGY-Meta. What I appreciate, and I’, worry this didn’t come through – is the work that goes into preparing those ‘projects’. As a creator that’s produced her own books [digital and in print], I can tell you that scanning artwork, cleaning up the artwork, lettering the artwork, doing the sfx, then resizing the artwork is not something you can do in one weekend. Don’t get me started on translating and writing the translation out into script form. It’s labor intense – unless you work at NASA and have the worlds fasted computer. :/ There’s a reason publishers don’t assign all these tasks to unpaid interns–these tasks are assigned to individuals who come to these companies with resume in hand and college under their belt–mainly because this is A JOB in publishing THAT’S SALARY BASED.

    Asking a group of scanslators to put in two months to three weeks of their lives on a book and not paying them a salary while they do so? Then guess what? The book will not come out faster–they will still retain their RL jobs, and work on that book at night or whenever they have free time. Why? Because being paid backend [AFTER THE BOOK GOES ON SALE] doesn’t afford any production member the time to make it a priority. And how will they be paid? Quarterly? SO 30 days after the first three months of sales they will get paid? Hmmm? Scanslation groups may seem like hobbyists – but there’s a ton of work that goes into what they’re doing, and if they’re going to do it ‘professionally’, they should be paid for it.

    ^_^ Tina

    [Reply to this comment]

    Michalyn Reply:

    Well said. Also, I read alot of comments saying “well the scanslators have nothing to lose by just talking it out with DMP so everyone benefits.” I’m not saying this is impossible to work out, but “just talking it through” is not quite as simple as it seems. You have to be pretty savvy to think you can talk things through with a company without being sure you’re not informally or formally committing yourself to things you did not intend to.

    [Reply to this comment]

    Jennifer LeBlanc AKA Asami's Girl Reply:

    As long as they don’t put it in writing with a signature, I really don’t see them having any issues with talking. Will they be outing themselves as scanlators? Yes and THAT is more of a risk than anything.

    [Reply to this comment]

    Michalyn Reply:

    *You* may not but that does not mean that objectively there are no other issues beyond outing themselves as a scanslator. Verbal contracts are recognized by law. Talk really is not cheap depsite the popular saying.

    I’m not meaning to imply that DMP is in the back somewhere cackling over a bubbling cauldron but I *do* think they must be fully aware of the power imbalance proposed in all of this and that it is a power imbalance made possible only if scanslators actually bite.

    A faulty premise at the heart of alot of this is the same one which afflicted that infamous fanfiction site which tried to capitalize on fanfic and subsequently went under. Most fanficcers and scanslators and subbers do not do this in the hopes of being legitimized and recognized by parent companies. That means the idea of “sanctioned” scans in and of themselves holds very little allure for the vast majority of scanslators. That means the best way for scanslators to protect themselves requires no conversation with the parent company–they can just stop scanslating–which apparently is not 100% appealing to DMP.

    As horrified as some people seem to be by scanslators DMP is actually asking them to continue to operate in the murky gray area between legal and illegal and that usually is a place where people are not as fully protected by the law as they might believe. You said in a previous comment that

    “I will never respect a scanlator who thinks it’s their ‘right’ to do it. Nor will I care if said scanlator gets screwed over. I’m trying to open up the lines of communication between DMP and scanlators.”

    Well then yes, it makes sense in that case to want to open up a conversation. It’s perfectly logical.

    There is no guarantee that scanslators will be screwed over. Who knows they may hammer out a fantastic deal but if you had to weigh the pros and cons, on balance they have a higher chance of losing out from becoming part of this conversation compared to if they actually did not engage, or even reformed their wily ways and ceased scanslating altogether.

    I’m not criticizing your opinion of scanslators. I fully respect your right to your view. Just hopefully politely pointing out that you are not quite the objective “mediator” you appear to be. Sometimes an open conversation is not actually the reasonable stance for all parties involved.

    [Reply to this comment]

  • I just heard news that MangaHelpers is closing down.
    http://mangahelpers.com/news/details/376

    Since the site was bought out several months ago there has been talk about a new project that will take place and it seems that they are making the move now.
    http://mangahelpers.com/news/details/377?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

    The OpenManga platform is closing in on being ready for a beta within the near future. In preparation of the upcoming beta, we have been in contact with over 70 artists – many of which expressed great interest in using our platform to distribute their work, and build their IPs and fan communities while at the same time earning money from merchandise, sales, donations and other models that are included in the OpenManga system. Interacting with fans from all over the world that enjoy their art, and having a business model backing to support them so they can work on it full time, could and soon will be a dream come true.

    I wonder if DMP is hiring the scanlators to compete with this since this will be mangaka working with scanlators and will be cutting out the companies completely.

    This might really beneit the Manwha fandom since they have such a shrinking market and are competing with Japan for the manga market. They have recently been turning to online webcomics word was there was worry of the publishing market collapsing for Korea because of the shrinking market. But it’s not just the manwha but also K-Pop and K-movies…the entire media industry is hurting because S. Korea has such a small market and Japan is taking their business.

    If OpenManga works…isn’t that basically taking the idea of onemanga legit? Fans get the scans for free (supposedly) and the mangaka’s get the support.

    The thing is…what about the publishers? Or is this e-book type of business model cutting out the middleman?

    So is this why we are seeing the strongarm tactics from the publishers?

    Is this kind of like the RIAA/MPAA taking the rights of the creators and running with it and when the creators decide to try a new avenue to be rid of them and be given more control of their creation they decide to pull the copyright issue?

    One reason a lot of people hate the RIAA/MPAA is because of the strong arm thieving tactics they’ve used in the past and nowadays (isn’t a Canadian music company suing because the US music companies stole their music and used it in some ads?) with them profiting off the work of their artists (and just plain steal from other artists not in their company label). Anyone else remember why Prince change his name to a symbol and finally changed it back when he got his rights to his music back?

    [Reply to this comment]

    Tina Anderson Reply:

    Hi Akuma-river. I saw that and read this:

    …we have been in contact with over 70 artists – many of which expressed great interest in using our platform to distribute their work, and build their IPs and fan communities while at the same time earning money from merchandise, sales, donations and other models that are included in the OpenManga system….

    It sounds to me like some Japan artists are simply trying to find another outlet for their digital material; there are about four HUGE sites in Japan that currently do what lOpenManga claims it’s about do to – for Japanese creators both unpublished and established. I don’t see a creator of a current series published in Japan coming to OpenManga with that series and asking to stream it. :/ This will likely be digital doujinshi, by creators both popular and obscure.

    [Reply to this comment]

    akuma_river Reply:

    Ooops, I meant to hit reply but it didn’t work.

    I replied to you here, http://theyaoireview.com/2010/06/11/yaoi-news-digital-manga-looking-to-hire-scanlators/comment-page-1/#comment-32409, but I think I went off on a bit of a tangent. Sorry.

    [Reply to this comment]

  • Indeed, no once is getting forced into anything here. It will appeal to some and not others.

    For those who are attracted to this arrangement — well they’ll just have to see how it works out. Will they get treated with respect? Will the business terms satisfy them in the long run? These are the unknowns.

    Likewise for the publisher, will they be able to find the right way to work together with a group of independent fans? Maybe they’ll be scuttled by their own corporate culture. Or it maybe that they are still in touch with their own instrinsic feelings of fandom. Totally these are open questions that will have to get sorted out.

    But really if DMP does not give this a try — they would be moving forward with their heads buried in the sand. Right? The RIAA comes to mind as an industry hoping to slash and burn through their customer base in hopes that they can return their world to the 1960′s. I mean DMP’s notion seems positively enlightened in comparison.

    [Reply to this comment]

  • Very interesting. I wonder if there’s some as-yet-secret twist to this proposal we don’t know about yet.
    Maybe they are also thinking of “licensing” Already Scanlated work. As in paying for the putting up a scanlation for legal viewing online, and going through the full licensing process for the manga from there if it’s popular enough. Now THAT would be cool.

    Either way, kudos to them for trying out something new. We all know the current system of illegal scanlation vs expensive published books needs a revamp, & I think everyone agrees there must be a better way.
    Good to know they’re experimenting with an inclusive solution to the problem instead of just screaming “evil” and trying to stamp out all scanlations.

    [Reply to this comment]

    Cait Reply:

    As cool as it might be that DMP is thinking outside the box, I still don’t see this going anywhere lucrative for anyone in the end. Existing scanlations sounds like a bad idea to me, in any event, considering even I, who buys everything I like in scanlation either when it comes out in English or by importing tankoban I can’t even read, wouldn’t pay to read something online that I already downloaded for free. I’m only going to put my money into something new, or in print once I have seen it for free (legally or illegally).

    And it’s just not viable for DMP to offer this program for free, as time and again with anime it has been shown that ad-revenue on streams is not a lucrative option for paying the Japanese artists or paying off the license (which yes, they will still have to pay for). The pay-per-view model seems the only viable option then, and we’re back to the issue above.

    A manga aggregator, additionally (and not directed at you), cannot “sidestep” the publishers or licensing process and go directly to the mangaka in any other case than self-published works, which is not something US licencing companies have ever gone after (unless someone is talking to Miyamoto Kano about Hydra…), so there is no competition to be seen there. Japanese mangaka have publishing agreements with their commercial properties and even if they “express interest” in using a US aggregator to get English-language exposure, if it is for a title they have published commercially and is still controlled by a Japanese publisher, the agreement still has to go through the Japanese publisher, not directly through them. Many commercially viable mangaka, also, are not going to risk the viability of getting their works published professionally (and yes, this sort of thing could make their properties unlicensable when it ruins the profitability overseas) by going through this sort of channel to get them made available overseas.

    So who does that leave? Doujinshi artists who suddenly want to do it for the money instead of the labor of love they do it for now (and more power to them) and unknown artists that want to break out regardless of the risk this has to the future viability of their manga careers. And who does it actually sidestep? The scanlators who now have to go through the aggregators to scanlate the titles they want instead of the aggregators (who are entirely for-profit and always have been) coming to them and taking their work (and the work of legit US licensing companies when they allowed the distribution of scans of English books). And are these aggregators even offering the scanlators money? DMP is. Either way, it scarcely affects what DMP seems like they are looking to do with this project.

    [Reply to this comment]

    yblees Reply:

    What DMP seems to be doing can be a platform that’s used in different ways by different interests groups. Putting the issue of payment aside for now.
    One more straightforwards option is for the original content/Doujinshi creators to showcase their work.
    But simultaneously, they can also run the program as a Source site for legal raws (with permission from Japanese owners),
    a bidding platform for scanlation groups interested in said raws (no money need change hands, it can be a credit system), and
    an Aggregator site for manga, including scanlations that predate this system (i.e existing scanlations).

    The Money Issue.
    Scanlators already work for free as it is. There will be many who are happy to work for free.
    Initially to showcase their work & gain exposure. And/Or as an investment that their work does get licensed later. Remember, this will be a legal, authorised venue to show your work internationally.
    Setting up some sort of credit/donation/membership subscription system could allow scanlators & DMP to get some income, although I suspect this exploratory excercise is not meant to make any money.

    Access – Why Scanlations will persists, so they might as well be legal.
    There are people around the world who literally can only access yaoi manga through the internet due to government controls rather than from financial reasons. Arab/Muslim countries for example. Currently, there is no way for DMP to legally reach this customer base.
    These are not cash strapped customers I’m talking about, yea…?

    [Reply to this comment]

    Cait Reply:

    On “Access:” Interesting in theory, but I have to wonder if it is even legally viable as an option. As we have discovered with anime streaming, the Japanese producers are only selling international licensing rights to North American companies for North American distribution. All other regions must be licensed separately or get region blocked (meaning UK fans often have to wait or are refused access to English language streams). While print doesn’t even suffer from the same region encoding issues as DVDs, I have to wonder if their license agreements with Japanese publishers have restrictions on digital distribution outside the major English-language nations that major distribution is dealt in (US, Canada, UK, Australia and other parts of Europe), not to mention the legal access issues of people in socially and morally restrictive countries. Would a BL fan in Iran get in trouble for putting yaoi scan payments on their credit card? Some of these countries send secret police out against their own citizens. The ones who currently access these scans illegally have more safety in anonymity because the only records of their access can be deleted from their own computers. They might have the money to pay for it, but still choose not to for fear of their own lives or freedom.

    In either case, however, a company like DMP has never really been affected by a few hundred fans in parts of the world they cannot even distribute paper books in legally, and I don’t see them doing all that much in an effort to reach out to those specific fans. The ones I think they are trying to catch with this project are the ones who simply don’t want to wait for English releases, or don’t want to pay for paper books. Many of them might very well be willing to shell out a few bucks on each title to read them online if they can no longer get them for free, rather than switching to actually buying the books they claim to like so much and supporting the artists the way they should. That seems far more reasonable an expectation to me than the publishers going after the scanlators thinking that getting rid of the “problem” will mean the people who read those scans will suddenly start buying books.

    [Reply to this comment]

    yblees Reply:

    erm,
    Focusing only on populations interested in English language translations…
    Indonesia, pop 240mil. Malaysia 20mil, Pakistan 600mil, Arab Peninsula countries like the UAE & Kuwait. Brunei.
    I’m guessing there are at least as many yaoi buyers out there as in the USA who have trouble buying paper books through the normal postal system.

    [Reply to this comment]

    Cait Reply:

    Population size is irrelevant when social custom and legal authority forbid legal access to things. That was my point. It isn’t just about importing paper books overseas. Hundreds of countries clearly have trouble with that, ones that speak English as a first language, such as in the UK. Commercial BL in English has never been about reaching all foreign markets, it’s just that English right now happens to be the most widely spoken second language, and as unfortunate as that might be for fans in those parts of the world, they still aren’t entitled to those goods just because they want them. It still does not justify them taking anything without paying for it. If a company like DMP wants to pursue those markets, great, but those markets don’t just get to have those goods for free because they “can’t” get them otherwise.

    [Reply to this comment]

    yblees Reply:

    Testing ground.
    According to the above article, DMP pays $2000 to 5000 up front for a volume/manga.
    I say it now – This Is Peanuts!
    Most of their costs must be in the 12 month period where they have to translate, edit, publish the paper book & distribute.
    The risk is that after this huge investment in translating, etc. this paper book Does Not Sell.
    Hypothetically, if DMP picks up a rights to a bunch of yaoi manga – puts up high quality raws and asks for expressions of interest by existing scanlation groups.
    Maybe let everybody scanlate chapter 1 and run a competition to see which group gets to continue. Submission timeline is flexible but specified up front, so only groups that can meet it can “bid” for the right to scanlate. It would generate HUGE interest in the yaoi community.
    I don’t know how it would work in the non-yaoi groups, shounen tend to be really competitive and not always ethical, so you may get some bootleg raws/scanlations going around.
    – but it would work with the yaoi and shoujo groups that tend to form around fairly organised communities anyway.
    It could work, and it means all the skills & passion available in the scanltion community won’t be simply wasted or suppressed.

    The manga community needs to try lots of new things right now to solve our existing issues. Most of these new things will fail, or will need to be modified extensively as the process goes on. I for one am glad that DMP is working on a program that will include major input from the fans, and that all the skills and passion available in the Scanlation groups will not be wasted or suppressed simply because this plan sounds ridiculous or impossible at the beginning.

    [Reply to this comment]

    Tina Reply:

    @yblees

    I was reading your comments and this one struck a nerve with me:

    ____Hypothetically, if DMP picks up a rights to a bunch of yaoi manga – puts up high quality raws and asks for expressions of interest by existing scanlation groups.
    Maybe let everybody scanlate chapter 1 and run a competition to see which group gets to continue. Submission timeline is flexible but specified up front, so only groups that can meet it can “bid” for the right to scanlate. It would generate HUGE interest in the yaoi community.____

    I know for a fact that a number of BL scanslators do not do what they do for the notoriety. Those that make it all about them? That attitude sprung from people taking their scans and not crediting them for the work–and suddenly the cult of the ‘scanslation group’ developed. When the aggregators got into it–groups simply put their URLS on the pages and dealt with it. :/ You have to ask yourself– are they doing it for recognition or are they doing it as a form of fan expression? If they are doing it to get attention–then DMP is likely the way to go for them…but if that’s not the case, and I can tell you with most translators it’s not – the idea of competing with other groups for a title is demeaning.

    I can’t shake visions of Zoolander jumping around in his monkey outfit… It feel like DMP made this announcement to fandom – instead of contact the groups themselves–in the hope that perhaps fandom will apply a little pressure on the groups to ‘conform’ to this new way of thinking?

    [Reply to this comment]

    Jennifer LeBlanc AKA Asami's Girl Reply:

    I have to disagree with you on your last paragraph. DMP has actually contacted groups directly and there are groups who have been in contact back showing interest. The forum thing came about around the same time he was contacting these groups and that was by another party he was talking to.

    [Reply to this comment]

    Tina Anderson Reply:

    Ah – thanks for clearing that up for me. I didn’t realize this wasn’t a public announcement thing – DMP still has my respect then. ^_^ *sorry DMP*

    I thought for sure you’d disagree about my Zoolander monkey vision! XD

    [Reply to this comment]

    Jennifer LeBlanc AKA Asami's Girl Reply:

    I’m trying not to comment TOO much in this thread. It’s for the people! XD

    [Reply to this comment]

    Tina Anderson Reply:

    I should shut up too – I’m probably sound anti-DMP which is not my case. I’m just trying to add some insight as to why the initial reaction from some scanslator groups are that of ‘wtf no way’ and ‘get real DMP’. ^_^

    I truly hope they can work something out. I think if DMP offers them something up front [anything fan-group related would certainly be cheaper then hiring editors/translators and graphic artists on the pro level] then I think it shows an awesome level of respect and trust from a publisher that’s well aware what scanslators did in cultivating the business they’re now profiting from.

    [Reply to this comment]

    yblees Reply:

    Tina, I know you have yaoi oel on DMP’s emanga website.
    If they were to move to a new platform placing original content right next to authorised scanlations – would you continue with them?
    In other words, if there are going to be major changes and compromises required, are they reasonable people to work with?

    As for the “competition” between groups. I intended that idea more as a way to assure quality of the scanlations.
    If DMP has the rights to a manga that is ALREADY scanlated to an acceptable quality, I hope they will simply authorise the already scanlated work for the website.
    This way, older scanlations will not be wasted simply because they were made too early.

    [Reply to this comment]

    Tina Anderson Reply:

    “In other words, if there are going to be major changes and compromises required, are they reasonable people to work with?”

    I’m the wrong person to ask this. =_=; After Games with Me Volume 2, I wont be working with eManga anymore because I’m unhappy with the percentage I, get compared to other digital outlets I work with. This isn’t saying DMP hasn’t been great for the works I’ve given them–but there’s some issues I can’t get past as a creator/business.

    Also– if they worked with scanslators on licensed projects, and paid those scanslators for those projects– then I wouldn’t see them as authorised scanlations. So no, I’d have no issue at all.

    [Reply to this comment]

    yblees Reply:

    Oh dear.
    I thought of reading Games with Me off eManga way back. But they didn’t have Paypal as an option & I had a mental block about sending credit card details (completely irrational of course).
    Ended up getting it from Amazon, running of the Kindle PC.
    Couldn’t figure out how to zoom in on the small picture, so didn’t finished reading it.
    I really regret that now, because eManga’s viewer is pretty good for reading manga. Should have just bought it off them.
    Either way, not a happy experience with internet distribution (T__T)

    [Reply to this comment]

    Tina Anderson Reply:

    If you paid for the KINDLE version and couldn’t read it, send me your ‘confirmation of purchase’ sale from KINDLE and I will send you a PDF.

    :)

    email is gynocrat@elegantmadness.net

    [Reply to this comment]

    yblees Reply:

    Woohoo!
    Yes Please. Emailing now.
    I even tried reducing my screen resolution to get a bigger picture, but that just made the lettering fuzzy.
    I know pictures CAN be zoomed on a real kindle.
    Not sure if I’m just missing something on the PC Kindle, and haven’t got a reply back from Amazon customer support yet.

    [Reply to this comment]

    Cait Reply:

    I’m pretty sure that $2000 to $5000 quoted number is the advance for royalties (the minimum guarantee for the licensor that they get paid regardless of the work ever being produced overseas), and not inclusive of the total cost of the licensing agreement per volume. I’m not saying this fact defeats your suggestions here, but I don’t want anyone thinking the license for a volume of manga is low enough that any joe shmoe on the street can buy the license for a volume of manga and produce it themselves (even I have $2000 in savings sitting in the bank).

    The problem is that a small English publisher like DMP (and, yes they are a small publisher, even if they’re the biggest BL publisher) has that money tied up, probably in a dozen different properties at once way way before the book even goes into production, meaning they have that much less thousands of dollars in capital with which to physically produce (translate, clean, edit, etc.) and print (which is a whole separate cost) before they can even start to make any of their money back. Given the lag between a license announcement and the actual paper books being in print being around 2 years, that’s two years per volume of manga that they have their money tied up before they even know if it will be profitable.

    What I got from what Jen quoted from the president of DMP is that they’re looking to cut out the advance royalty payout and delay the payment for production to after the books are available in English (digitally), so that they can recoup the cost more quickly (and in advance) so that their current bottleneck (which includes books that are up to two months delayed in printing right now) can get released more quickly.

    [Reply to this comment]

    yblees Reply:

    Hmm, we may be having a misunderstanding here.
    What I got from the interview was that DMP probably already has rights to loads of backlogged manga that will never see the light of day because nobody is sure if the book will make money.
    Currently, even if they WANT to open up this backlog stash for online viewing first (the way Netcomics works), they don’t financial and manpower resources to do it.
    So instead of gaining exposure, and maybe making some money online from week 2 or 3, all these titles are sitting in storage for years – sometimes forever.
    Scanlations Probably Already Exist for Some of Those Backlogged manga!!
    Professional translators/editors, etc will not lose out because they will still be needed to produce high quality end product for any manga that passes the Scanlation popularity test.
    If you will, DMP needs the Scanlators to make fast, cheap Previews.
    They ALSO need the highly paid professionals to make beautiful books that sell like hot cakes rather than sitting in a warehouse for 3 years before being pulped for the recycled paper.
    Looking at it this way, nobody should lose out.

    [Reply to this comment]

    yblees Reply:

    Possible Money Making system
    (Sorry Jennifer, my brain is racing now & if I don’t get this out I’ll never get to sleep)
    Firstly, members have to sign up to read the scanlations. Already, DMP has a huge, member/potential customer base that it can reach for advertising purposes.
    Have grades of membership, from free to some sort of premium paid for membership with special perks (voting rights?). Membership fees go to supporting DMP’s website costs.

    Say a group/groups has won the right to scanlate a manga. They post each chapter as they finish.
    Add a donation button & allow happy readers to “Please donate to support this group”. 50% of donations go to the group, 50% to whatever fees & costs including royalties to the mangaka, Jap publisher, etc.
    I don’t care if I already have a bootleg copy of XXX manga from YYY scanlator three years ago, by god I’m going to donate some money as a thank you. Not much, I grant you – but the strength of aggregator sites has always been in their sheer member numbers.

    [Reply to this comment]

    Cait Reply:

    My guess is DMP is going to use their existing system for digital distribution (eManga) for any kind of aggregating and that they will offer free previews and then pay per chapter or volume for more than that. Developing a new online aggregator would be a lot more money upfront unless they went through an existing aggregator, with whom they would undoubtedly have to share profits.

    The thing about aggregator member numbers is that the majority of those page views are for mega-series published in English already by major manga licensees. I’m thinking Viz, Tokyopop, Dark Horse and Yen and titles like Naruto, One Piece and Bleach. Outside that, the niche properties, like BL, are far far fewer on the viewing numbers, and the numbers are based on the fact that people can read them for free. Take the free part away and you’re going to lose a lot of views. Some will simply stop reading manga scans all together, some will switch to paying for the scans they read and others will just find the scans elsewhere for free. Any way you cut it, though, those numbers are not going to contribute much to profitability in either ad revenue or pay per view reading. If you’re willing to “donate” money to the legal aggregators for scans you read years ago, good for you, but I can’t see most of the masses with a sense of entitlement for free manga agreeing to pay for limited access of the exact same thing (ie, scans) they already own for free (legally or illegally).

    [Reply to this comment]

    yblees Reply:

    Personally I think DMP will have to BECOME and aggregator site to survive. Without the numbers, it’s going to fail.
    I suspect the eManga site may not cut it either – it’s too picture heavy to allow thousands, much less hundreds of thousands of members simultaneous access without breaking something.
    Pirate aggregator sites don’t look flash because it’s simply too expensive.

    Hypothetically speaking:
    DMP became an aggregator site for every manga title they have rights too (I’m assuming they have a lot),
    AND they offer free basic membership,
    I for one would personally post in every community I have access to inviting members to support them.
    Aarinfantasy (random scanlation group example) will probably port their membership list wholesale over, and
    download links for any scanlation of theirs that DMP has rights to will be moved over as well.
    They online yaoi archives will become: everything DMP owns, scanlated and available on DMP’s website. And everything else.
    And you can bet the rabid fangirls will also be policing the net to make sure no unauthorized versions are shared offsite.

    Before anyone starts taking issue with this “Big Brother” style scenario –
    please keep in mind I’m exaggerating a little to make the point that free bootleg scanlations need not be an issue because the places you can find bootleg yaoi scanlations are organised, self regulating, close knit, fervently anti-poaching, and already have loads of rules members keep to, or else!

    Caveat: May not work for shounen. They are a mad, wild mob ;-P

    [Reply to this comment]

    Cait Reply:

    I think you may be getting ahead of the issue at hand. There is no evidence to suggest that DMP is in any way interested in becoming an aggregator. Pursuing scanlation groups to do one-off jobs for the promise of payment at a later date is a far cry from completely revolutionizing the way manga is distributed online legally.

    No company is going to do what the aggregators do with commercial properties. They are not going to just give away all of the pages of all of the volumes of all of their licenses. It might work for this new OpenManga thing because it’s targetting independent and unknown artists, but those artists are not going to be professional full-time manga artists in many cases.

    The aggregators now do not pay licensing fees, they do not pay royalties, they do not pay production costs. The US licensees will still be paying all of those things, and working with Japanese publishers who have a history of reticence towards new technologies. I hardly see “hey, we’re just going to let everyone read all our titles completely for free and take in a few bucks in ad-revenue, what do you think?” going over very well. On either side. Licensing manga is expensive, and just because OneManga is one of the top sites on the internet doesn’t mean it is a gold-mine. Syndicated streaming anime, despite its view numbers hasn’t shown any profit-making potential so far, so both ad-revenue and subscription revenue (for premium content) when considering the still-existing cost of licensing are obviously an issue in such a niche market like anime/manga.

    Remember when Toshiba tried their hand at user-translated manga online? It failed. Why? Probably because they couldn’t convince a single one of the major publishers of major titles to allow those titles to be distributed online in that fashion, wanted the same (or higher) licensing payments as if those books were going to the regular market and it simply wasn’t financially viable to do.

    DMP is not talking about going aggregator, they’re talking about getting cheap production on some of their backlogged titles so they can get them out faster. They already offer previews of all their titles on eManga. Netcomics offers all first chapters for free. This is probably as far as it is going to go for “free” viewing of manga legally, unless you check a book out of your local library (which is completely uncomparable to digital distribution). People are still going to have to pay to read the rest of the books online. The difference will be that those books will come out faster, come out digitally (while still many of DMP’s catalog is not available on eManga), and come out cheaper for them.

    In a perfect world everyone is served, but in a capitalist world, the ones who can afford their expensive niche hobbies are the ones who get to enjoy them.

    [Reply to this comment]

    yblees Reply:

    Hmm, I disagree that manga should only be for rich people who live in liberal countries.

    We already HAVE the technology to reach everyone with an internet connection. Publishers simply have to get smarter and figure out how to make money using this existing technology.
    I simply like the idea it that DMP is working from a viewpoint that includes the Entire manga community, not just the cash rich section of it.

    [Reply to this comment]

    Cait Reply:

    I’m not a “rich” person. In fact, I’d be considered “working class,” I just know how to manage my money in a way that I can “afford” the hobbies I am interested in. I don’t make income excuses for refusing to buy the consumer products I insist I love. And that’s what manga is, a commercial, consumer product. It is not the right of every human being on the planet to access it.

    But the thing is, those poor souls in those countries that “can’t import books” were never the “problem” in the first place. They were never “lost sales” because they were never going to buy those products to begin with. They weren’t part of the bottom line of any of these English-language manga licensees. And DMP and other manga publishers have already been trying to reach out to people who don’t want to pay shipping on books by already making numerous of their products available digitally, but it doesn’t seem to have stemmed the tide because there are people who will still just complain and come up with other excuses for not buying them (they don’t like the platform, it’s still not “all” the books, etc.).

    This new proposal by DMP might make things faster and it might make things cheaper, but it is not going to make scanlations legal and there will always be people who don’t care and will refuse to pay any kind of money for them.

    [Reply to this comment]

    yblees Reply:

    Quality Control
    DMP gets final say. No questions.
    Say an authorised scanlation is very popular. All through the process, there will be feedback from members/readers as to quality of translations, editing, etc.
    The Scanlation is a TEST. It doesn’t have to be perfect. But all the feedback will exist on DMP’s records for when/if they actually print a paper book. Not to mention the manga’s view count and some sort of rating system.
    NOTE: There will NOT be horrible quality scanlations, because lousy ones will not get past the Chapter 1 selection process.)

    Some editing choices are done for legal/compliance reasons.
    This is a fact fans have to accept, even if they don’t like it. Apart from those, DMP will have a record of what the readers really liked or hated.
    Final copy goes to the professional, paid translators for proofreading & editors,etc for cleanup.
    I doubt many scanlations will be good enough for final print copy as they stand, although there may be some.
    This will free up all the paid, professional manga development personnel to troubleshoot when required,
    and concentrate on final product where the money really counts.
    Frankly, they must be the very overworked bottleneck right now if we are talking about getting large volumes of preview quality manga translated & available.

    Hopefully, by this point, DMP will already have recovered the cost of maintaining the site, and their up-front per manga payment. Royalties would have started trickling to the mangaka. Scanlators would be getting some pocket money and LOTS of exposure.
    AND we all end up with a money making book that can generate enough sales to cover everything else & generate a profit.
    Ta Daa!

    [Reply to this comment]

    Jennifer LeBlanc AKA Asami's Girl Reply:

    Well, there is definitely more to it than what we know now. DMP’s President specifically said he was not giving out ALL of the details. We’ll just have to wait and see what comes of it. :-)

    [Reply to this comment]

  • There is something is fishy in YaoiLand this month.

    Speaking as a translator, I don’t like being underpaid for my work. Neither do I like to see other translators being paid more for work of less quality, or less for work of good quality. So it is my belief that this applies to scanlators as well. If they are to be paid, that should happen based on the volume of work they do and on its quality, rather than on the popularity of the series they are working on.

    [Reply to this comment]

  • We really don’t know who is interested in this. And while there are four huge sites that do that for artists in Japan…do they have scanslations of the series for people who speak other languages as well? That seems to be what OpenManga is planning to do.

    The thing is, what people are getting is that ALL of this strong arm tactics is due to MangaHelpers. About a year back, they got bought out and tried to go legit. They got in contact with Viz and we don’t know what was said but we do know that since then thing have been taking place behind the scenes that has led to this.

    And while it may be for Doujinshi…if they get artists who put a title and then do subsequent sequels and prequels through self-published doujinshi’s Kano Miyamoto and Murakami does…that won’t be licensed in the US or elsewhere…then we might see big changes take place.

    It all depends on who is willing to take a risk and who isn’t locked down in super tight contracts with big corporations.

    I think everyone, at this point, just want to know what is going on and who is being targeted by the group. No one knows who they are targeting they said 30 scan groups but no names of who, does that mean the rest is safe, what about the other nations. While onemanga and mangafox get 23% of its audience through the US the vast majority is other Asian nations like Singapore, Indonesia, China, etc.

    So a lot of people feel that this will kill the manga market because only the popular series will be licensed since they are guarantees and all the good cult favorites will never see the light of day.

    And with DMP announcing this scanlation hiring thing and OpenManga…it all feels strange and scary and people are worried we will see repeats of RIAA/MPAA tactics and that will kill the fandoms.

    As much as I love some series, I’ve been burned before by US publishers, and I just don’t have faith in them. DMP did yaoi novels and now they won’t pick up Only the Ring Finger Knows book 5 even though they did the previous 4 and even though NO ONE else is doing them.

    And Libre used us fans to take down BeBeautiful over the re-licensing issue of View Finder…so we are feeling betrayed right now. Scanlations pre-date these companies and we created the fandoms for them foster the translations on. It’s not our fault they over salturated the market with crappy series, killed cult favorite series, became lazy at translations, screwed up royally on some popular series, and got hit with a global recession and credit crunch.

    At this point, I really just don’t trust anybody. At least with scan groups I know what I’m getting, uncensored, as true to original as possibly translations/transliterations, by fans who love this series as much as I do and I can trust them not butcher it. And if they do and if its popular then at least I know someone else will come along and do a better job because of the competition within the scan groups.

    There is no competition in license companies. It’s ‘canon’ what they put out, they ‘own’, it doesn’t matter if they changed names, phrases, and took out controversial scenes. Their word is law and unless you are able to pay the massive international shipping fees to get the original…that’s what you are stuck with.

    And for a lot of people…it feels like we are being robbed.

    And with DMP trying to harness the scan groups fandom’s and supporters into producing these ‘canon’ pieces… I just don’t trust them to not screw over the scan groups, the fans, and the mangka’s original vision.

    And OpenManga just seems more friendly in comparison.

    [Reply to this comment]

    Tina Anderson Reply:

    “Scanlations pre-date these companies and we created the fandoms for them foster the translations on. It’s not our fault they over saturated the market with crappy series, killed cult favorite series, became lazy at translations, screwed up royally on some popular series, and got hit with a global recession and credit crunch.”

    That’s brilliant. <3

    [Reply to this comment]

    Cait Reply:

    1. The RIAA/MPAA went after end-users, and the manga/anime industry, even if it wanted to (which it seriously doesn’t because it knows how well that worked out for the RIAA) does not have the financial resources to go after fans. They’re going after the aggregators because the aggregators are allowing scans of licensed English properties to be posted for free for all to read. Not cool.

    2. I don’t know where you got the information that DMP is not going to pursue OtRFK volume 5 (they have never openly stated it), but if that’s the case it is because manga aggregators like OneManga and MangaFox scanned and made available for viewing for free, the first four English released volumes and DMP was unable to recoup their costs. Blaming the publisher for the lack of sales needed to make a property continue to be viable is unfair.

    3. Libre did not get “us fans” to shut down BeBeautiful. BB went under when its parent company, CPM went under. It had nothing to do with Libre or manga fans. CPM went under following several painful years of decline after Musicland collapsed. It was a part of the recession that pre-dated the current economic climate. The Libre debacle was unfortunate, but not something we had a hand in.

    [Reply to this comment]

    Cait Reply:

    1. EDIT: and the aggregators are profiting from said distribution of English language properties. I think that is the major difference here. Manga companies turned a blind eye in the past because the scanlators weren’t making money from the illegal distribution of titles and ceased distribution when the titles were licensed. The aggregators were posting the scans of scanlation groups without anyone’s permission (including the scanlation groups) weren’t taking the scans down when the titles were licensed, and not only that, were allowing the distribution of scans of the actual English books when those came out as as well, and PROFITING from all of it. How is that okay?

    [Reply to this comment]

    Hmm. Reply:

    herp derp. yaoi and the like are illegal in countries like Singapore, Malaysia as they are considered gay porn.

    go to any kinokuniya or borders there and you won’t even find shounen ai titles – well a few like loveless – but beyond that, nothing. Import, get caught buying yaoi and i’d hate to think of the legal repercussions we will face.

    i kid you not. Please open up digital subscription (paypal-payable) to all countries – online is the only way we can even read yaoi. we already buy the nonBL titles that are licensed in english. once a title is licensed, we groan collectively because we can’t get out hands on it. look at the alexa ratings for OM and MF – traffic from the ASEAN block is high. Singapore, M’sia, Vietnam, Indonesia, The Philippines. I’m sure it’s even worse for fans in the arabic or african block as well. We can’t just barge into kino and say – Hey import these BL titles for me. Though we want to buy, our hands are sort of tied.

    We can’t all learn Japanese and move to Japan (wake up. the racism, the bad job market, the high costs of living.) We can’t all run to the US or UK either (and even if you import a title that has remotely any characters under 18, you can be jailed for pedophilia. Drawn and real CP is still CP in majority of the countries. *con is different in the US and Japan. How many yaoi features HS characters under 18?)

    Apple censored a gay kiss in a Oscar Wilde Comic. I can’t even believe that they allow yaoi on it. While we love yaoi, the world outside has very different notions from us. we are walking on eggshells.

    Embrace the digital subscription model where we can pay like $60 USD a year and read all we want. Please let us pay $1 to $2 for a chapter or $5 for a tankobun that we want to DL and keep.

    [Reply to this comment]

  • I would never buy digital manga.

    [Reply to this comment]

    Tina Anderson Reply:

    @Nadia

    May I ask why?

    And please don’t say it’s because ‘it costs the publisher nothing to upload scans’ because this will make my head explode.

    Just because it’s uploaded and not in print – doesn’t mean it cost nothing to create. The creators still worked on it and the production teams still translated/edited/lettered it. These two things are what publishers pay for regardless of if the book is digital or in print. The overhead is lower – but it’s not ZERO.

    ^_^ sorry to be rude, but I just had that trend in thought that because it’s online, it somehow negates what’s paid to the creator and production teams – pubs do shoulder costs paid to those two entities – they’re not uploading at ZERO cost to them.

    So why wouldn’t you rent or buy digital manga?

    [Reply to this comment]

    Tina Reply:

    had = hate

    “sorry to be rude, but I just hate that trend in thought that because it’s online, it somehow negates what’s paid to the creator and production teams – pubs do shoulder costs paid to those two entities – they’re not uploading at ZERO cost to them.”

    Sorry for the spell correction spam.

    [Reply to this comment]

    Nadia Reply:

    Tina:

    Oh it has nothing to do with that at all. I just love books. I love the smell and feel of them. I love holding them in my hand, for me being able to read a physical copy just gives a whole other experience then digital. Most tend to offer both, I just always pick the print one. :)

    [Reply to this comment]

    Tina Anderson Reply:

    I see. :) I have plenty of friends that’re die hard dead-tree fans. ^_-

    [Reply to this comment]

    yblees Reply:

    “dead tree fans”!
    ROTFL
    That’s right up there with “ghai but manly”

    I love reading from books too, but digital distribution also has it’s place imo.

    [Reply to this comment]

    Jb Reply:

    I’m actually leaning more towards a preference for digital myself, due to lower cost {to me as a consumer} and lack of physical space to house books. I think digital is the way to go for manga, just like it has been for books.

    [Reply to this comment]

    Tina Anderson Reply:

    @Jb I wish everyone were like you – and I suspect they would come around if better and more affordable e-readers were on the market. If KINDLE catches up with iPad in terms of scale and display, I think BL digiket would take off like a rocket.

    Sadly, iPad is hindered by silly content restrictions; and even if you read your BL through a KINDLE ap, it’s still hindered by KINDLE’s limited display [you have to prep files a certain way for KINDLE, and this often affect the quality of the pages].

    [Reply to this comment]

    Jb Reply:

    Yes I agree on the e-readers. They are terribly expensive, and each has some kind of limitation. The different platforms makes it even more complicated in terms of converting books (if needed) to work on one device vs another.

    I have hope that we are in the beginning stages of this type of thing and that eventually there will be more offered with better features at lower prices. It’s much like any ‘new’ technology in the beginning. I remember when VCRs and DVD players were outrageously priced. :)

    [Reply to this comment]

  • Not directly related to the issue at hand with DMP and the scanlation groups, but I know I’d love digital manga. Just a direct download into your computer, MAC, IPad or whatever is it you use and with some sort of system that would make it impossible to upload on sites like Mediafire and the likes. I know I’d be all over it in seconds, kind of like how I buy ebooks since I can’t get my hands on English books in my country without having to pay outrageous shipping fees. Sure, having it in your hands is always nicer but since I don’t live in North America, I do what I can. Hopefully, if the idea of legal online distribution of manga comes to fruition, it won’t have regional codes because I can’t even access Crunchyroll.

    It’s nice to dream sometimes lol.

    [Reply to this comment]

    Cait Reply:

    You know that manga (yaoi in particular) is starting to get distributed on Amazon’s Kindle (and you don’t need to own a Kindle to get the books: there’s a free download application), right? A couple of Tina Anderson’s books are there, numerous titles from DMP (manga and novels), Yaoi Press books and now Animate is working with Libre, I believe, to release some of the titles that were previously released in print by Deux. It’s definitely starting to happen:

    http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Ddigital-text&field-keywords=yaoi

    [Reply to this comment]

    Elvira Reply:

    Oh yes, I’m aware of this but I always thought it was for Kindle only and since I don’t have one, I didn’t bother to research much on it. Thank for the info!

    [Reply to this comment]

    Cait Reply:

    Yep, you can download the applications (free!) here:

    http://www.amazon.com/gp/feature.html/ref=sa_menu_karl3?ie=UTF8&docId=1000493771

    [Reply to this comment]

    Elvira Reply:

    Awesome, thanks for the info. I’ve already spotted a few things I like. Hopefully more publishers will get on board with Kindle as well.

    [Reply to this comment]

    akuma_river Reply:

    I prefer handheld books.

    I’m distrustful of the computers not getting infected with viruses, crashing, corruption of files not to mention the titles being recalled, fakes, the viewer not working, etc and losing the book and being forced to shell out more money for the book.

    That’s why I buy paperback. I have about 500 manga books and about 100 novels.

    I’m currently campaigning to get my library to pick up more manga. But it’s small and money is super tight. They are picking up Vampire Knight and Red River though…or they started. They got books 1-4 and 1-5 for me so far.

    I just wish there was this online version of manga cafes like Netflix where you pay a monthly/yearly fee (that’s reasonable, I already spend $500 a year on manga/anime) and you get to read all you want (online viewers…but more user friendly like onemanga or mangafox’s) and if you want to buy the book then you can order it (perhaps at a discount). I also want merchandise (I’m really debating on buying up all the Pandora Hearts keychains…but I’m not sure if that distributed by the companies or not).

    Also…why don’t the manga companies ADVERTISE new releases of mega hits? Usually I only hear about it by seeing it in the stores or checking up online.

    Considering that I’ve never seen a commerical (radio, tv, ONLINE ADS ON ANIME/MANGA FAN SITES, etc) for any graphic novels…I think them making 100 something million dollars in this freaking economy is a freaking miracle. Only gasoline, water, and food does as good as that on word of mouth.

    I’m still waiting for TokyoPop to print out the last volume of Demon Flowers and Saiyuki Reload. They told me it was licensing issues, but I would like them to be upfront with them if there are other issues.

    DramaQueen just burned me so royally that I barely trust any company anymore.

    As for the Kindle…I remember the hooplah about the censorship over the gay titles getting dropped several months back. I also remember the hooplah about the e-book sell records of free vs paid and its rankings.

    Besides…the only place I view ebooks is on my desktop computer…and I just prefer to buy books. Whenever I read something I typically always have to flash back several pages to a hundred to understand what I’m seeing in plot twists and no e-book format has dared compare to ability to just flip pages in a book.

    [Reply to this comment]

    Tina Anderson Reply:

    Sorry to hear fans are still having trouble with DQ – you’re the first I’ve heard that didn’t get their new release. =_=;

    KINDLE fixed their sales charts to reflect free AND and PAID – and as it stands now…KINDLE is the only place you can get homoerotic comics on a popular platform reader because iPAD is a no go for any form of erotic illustration material.

    [Reply to this comment]

    Cait Reply:

    Then I’ll be the second you heard that didn’t get DQ’s new release, but not because I don’t trust them on some emotional level. I simply don’t want to start a manga series through them that I have no guarantee of finishing because there is no guarantee they will survive long enough to put out the next volume.

    And I’m not surprised about Apple. I knew there was a reason I never liked them. What do they care what content gets distributed on their hardware? They let all those apps for illegal aggregators through, but not some manlove? One thing that is perfectly legal to own and another that is completely illegal. Hm… Get over yourselves.

    [Reply to this comment]

    akuma_river Reply:

    I made a reply here http://theyaoireview.com/2010/06/11/yaoi-news-digital-manga-looking-to-hire-scanlators/comment-page-1/#comment-32641

    …I don’t think this blog likes me. lol.

    [Reply to this comment]

    akuma_river Reply:

    Still having issues? Isn’t DQ dead and the licenses still in the lurch? I’ve heard rumors in the past of them trying to get back…but it was just rumors.

    I was talking about Kindle making two lists instead of keeping the one and how it was messing with rankings and showing prefence to the paid e-books. Sorry I wasn’t clear on that.

    I know all about Kindle and how Apple is censoring. I just don’t like the ebook format they have since it’s not built for comics and graphic novels.

    That’s why I’m holding out for HP and Acer and they are supposed to be using Google OS like on the Android and they tend to be less anti-porn and censoring. Not to mention the screen will be more friendly to the comics and graphic novels.

    I just don’t trust data. Data corruption has hit me mulitple times and I perfer books. If I buy something I want it to last and I’ve known books to last several decades (I have books that I inherited from my father that are copyrighted from 1950). But data? Data doesn’t last long. We have viruses and all sorts of things.

    The Pentagon is actively worried about the preservation of data since we have data corruption issues of the data slowly not working or responding and then just being lost. Not to mention that we have different types of data and machines that still don’t talk to each other.

    If I plan on keeping something, I want to know it will be around for a long time.

    If we have a virus that takes out Kindle or goes in and erases books from users Kindles (like how Amazon did over that copyright snafu about a year back (the copyright expired in one country but not here)) then what was paid for is lost and there is nothing to show for it.

    Give me a tactile book over data any day.

    [Reply to this comment]

  • [...] The Yaoi Review, Jennifer LeBlanc reports that Digital Manga is considering a scanlation-like project with fans translating manga that would be published strictly online. Check the comments for a [...]

  • [...] Digital Manga may be trying its own legal version of scanlation, according to this report at The Yaoi Review. DMP is working on a new ‘secret’ project for publishing more manga faster and cheaper than it [...]

  • DQ is up and running? Seriously? Not just a rumor? What about Deux?

    Apple is anti-porn on everything but ‘well known’ companies. Hell, they are anti bikini bathing suits. They can block aps (and they censor like hell on those which is why I don’t have an iphone). But they can’t block out the websites.

    I’m personally waiting for an income and for the iPad competition to come out. HP and Acer has these really nice looking ones and they supposed to run on Google’s OS. And Google is anti-censorship on everything but their ads (won’t allow their ads to be used on ‘mature’ sites unless they are ‘well known’.

    [Reply to this comment]

    Cait Reply:

    DQ released The Summit volume 1 a couple months ago with some “promises” of plans for RUSH and other stuff. Who knows if it will ever actually go anywhere, though.

    My point about Apple is the ridiculousness of the disparity between content which is legal and content which is not and their willingness to pursue the restriction of legal content and not so much as say a thing about the illegal content. I refuse to buy Apple products at this point. They can shove it.

    [Reply to this comment]

    akuma_river Reply:

    The Summit is out? Well shoot. Now I’m not sure what to do. I’ve waited 3 or 4 years for this…but since I haven’t read it in so long…I’m not sure I’m even interested anymore especially knowing how they may just die again.

    I have never bought an Apple product. I don’t like their business practices. They are genius with new inventions but I like what other companies do to build on it and improve it (If only the Android was for AT&T or not locked to one company).

    Not to mention them suing Google over the Android App just killed any goodwill I had with them.

    And then I read the Cracked.com article on Apple. http://www.cracked.com/article_18377_5-reasons-you-should-be-scared-apple.html

    I detest them now. Seriously, getting a patent on a product program that will force you to respond to an ad in order to use their device? That’s fucking evil.

    [Reply to this comment]

    Tina Anderson Reply:

    I can’t speak for what’s up with DQ right now – but I can tell you RUSH will be back in 2011. It’s not really being governed by ‘DQ central’ anymore – so that’s why those involved with RUSH can’t really speak on current issues with DQ.

    :/

    [Reply to this comment]

  • I don’t like their business practices. They are genius with new inventions but I like what other companies do to build on it and improve it (If only the Android was for AT&T or not locked to one company.

    [Reply to this comment]

  • On the one hand, I would prefer to see everyone fairly compensated for their work (that includes creators and others involved in the initial production of manga, which does not happen in scanlations), and it seems like they are looking to tap a cheap source of labor for even less than scanlators-turned-pro are already making.

    On the other, they are offering scanlators a precious commodity, one that only companies can afford for the sort of titles we are talking about: the creators’ and rightsholders’ consent. That is more valuable to at least some of us than money, fame, or job experience in the field. OpenManga would also offer that, but for different kinds of titles.

    [Reply to this comment]

  • I get that the article writer is anti-scanlation, but pretending that spec work is okay is the wrong message to be supporting. Young designers get tricked into and bit by spec work all the time. It’s not something to laugh at.

    [Reply to this comment]

    Jennifer LeBlanc AKA Asami's Girl Reply:

    You’re misunderstanding my point if you think it was to laugh at anyone doing spec work. My point was the irony of the statement considering what you do and that the creator doesn’t get paid when you scanlate their work. I understand the concerns of doing spec work and they are valid concerns. It’s the sense of entitlement many scanlators have and the lack of acknowledging the concerns of the very artists they steal from that makes me angry. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again.. own what you do. I can respect a scanlator who acknowledges the concerns of creators who don’t want their work scanlated. I will never respect a scanlator who thinks it’s their ‘right’ to do it. Nor will I care if said scanlator gets screwed over. I’m trying to open up the lines of communication between DMP and scanlators. If there are concerns, address them in a professional manner and perhaps this can still be a workable solution for all parties. I just posted a new post from the DMP President clarifying why he is presenting it as ‘spec work’. I suggest reading it and commenting if you still have concerns. If he doesn’t know what the problem is, he can’t present a new solution. And honestly, if scanlators don’t at least make SOME attempt to come to a workable solution then DMP will look like the good guys and you all will take the fall. Thanks for posting, I appreciate you addressing your concerns with me. You’re always welcome to post here regardless of my personal views. :-)

    [Reply to this comment]

    Scryren Reply:

    I misunderstood because the quote of mine that you pulled from AFF had absolutely nothing to do with scanlations and everything to do with not supporting spec. It’s not about scanlations; it’s about people being taken advantage of.

    Now with regards to scanlating, I have no illusions about what I’m doing is illegal and the people who think they’re entitled to free manga in their language need to be smacked upside the head.

    I also acknowledge that I’m a hypocrite. I think releasing licensed books and (god forbid) selling scanlations is wrong; I don’t even approve of scanlation groups accepting donations to pay for their server. There shouldn’t be any money involved with scanlations. However, I obviously don’t care that much about the mangaka or I wouldn’t be scanlating in the first place.

    I’m not saying what I do is right by any means, or that my views above make up for scanlating; I’m just explaining how it is for me. I know where my ethics fall, as confusing as they are even to me. Hell, the fact that I’m even discussing ethics as a scanlator is probably getting people upset. :/

    If you want to read a scanlation/fansub rehash debate take infinity, check out the forum responses to the coalition article on ANN. Have some pain meds ready. It’ll make your head explode.

    [Reply to this comment]

    Jennifer LeBlanc AKA Asami's Girl Reply:

    “I misunderstood because the quote of mine that you pulled from AFF had absolutely nothing to do with scanlations and everything to do with not supporting spec. It’s not about scanlations; it’s about people being taken advantage of.”

    You’d be correct, the quote itself was not specific to scanlations but it WAS about spec work in relationship TO scanlations and in a thread ABOUT scanlating for spec pay and made BY someone who does scanlations. Those things can’t be discounted or ignored. If that was posted in some random thread only about spec work and I pulled it from there to make a point about being a hypocrite, then I could see your point.

    As far as the ANN thread, I’ve avoided it altogether. I honestly don’t like to debate a subject with people (on either side) that have no intention of keeping an open mind. At least here on my own site I can make sure the discussion stays on track and as wank free as possible.

    And thanks for explaining your stance and beliefs on and about being a scanlator. It’s better to know than not know… for me anyway.

    [Reply to this comment]

  • [...] the recent topic of Digital Manga wanting to hire scanlators has struck a nerve with some and struck up great conversation with others. As a follow up to the [...]

  • It is in fact very amusing and amazing at the same time, to grasp the fact that almost all the links to valuable mangas are disappearing into thin air of licensing & Piracy nearly overnight.
    I wonder where these Moral Acknowledgement “Opportunists” were,…. when there raw mangas were not even known next door in Japan, let alone every nook and cranny of Amazon Forest thanks to free scan Groups who introduced these mangas in various languages to the world! Why did these people not play hide and seek behind licensing and piracy 3 years ago?? Hum, I wonder, Oh! I know….because it was not the right time to pick the unripe fruit yet. The Free Scanlation Groups were still busy innocently harvesting the raw crop of mangas to introduce the world to a new 2 D, black and white addictive dimension of naruto, bleach, haru wo daiteita……list goes on. Sure I know they are licensed mangas! However, 3 years ago not a soul knew about them until Free Scanlator Groups scanned it and people actually comprehended the power of artwork and story plot line. Now, more copies of this manga are sold worldwide then were sold 3 years ago.
    I think that some “ONE” (specific people belonging to a specific category) are extremely jealous and are evident opportunists. They are jealous at the fact that Japanese and Chinese comic’s fame and sales sky rocketed in the year 2006, 2007, and 2008. Their (mangas) sales and distribution sprouted like mushrooms, allowing many Japanese publishers and websites to earn a lot from these mangas (only because the free scanlators were kind enough to introduce these mangakas to us….(non jpn and non chn people). Regardless of the language since people started collecting the classic stuff.. Now they (opportunists) are sour because they do not have the resources or the talent to somehow compensate for the growing demand of a translated scans or raw mangas. HOWEVER, THEY want to have their cake and EAT IT TOO.
    US publishers are nowhere near capable of providing for such a large amount of growing demand in this manga business so,…. “THESE PEOPLE” (opportunists) decided to do something on their own, while cunningly using the LAW to their advantage. Now that jpn mangakas are famous and are well known for their work to the extent that people are ready to buy even raw mangas because of their art work etc. (disregarding the fact that the initial work that these FREE SCAN GROUP did with their very own sweat and blood) it is now time for them to swoop in and start EARNING $$$$$$$, from this great opportunity in the name of licensing and piracy AND IF THE MANGA MAKES A SALE “story”.
    Can anyone please tell me that did these opportunist’s MIND WENT OUT TO EAT GRASS ON THE MEADOWS when free scanlator groups like aarin, etc were struggling to introduce new mangakas and their work, and translating all those scans to introduce us to this whole new addictive world of mangas?
    If it not were for these Free groups, like aarin, DP, EOP, V&D, L&V, AF, and so may more, we (at least I) would never have known the world of nitta, or yoneda, or Masara and thousand of other mangaks, whose manga I buy bow regardless of language just because I LOVE their work. Somehow, I get the feeling that what ever these opportunists are doing or scheming to do, IT DOES NOT INVOLVE more pennies ending up in the original mangaks’s purse, but rather in their own opportunist’s pockets.
    I however, agree that licensed mangas are being distributed and fan translated, BUT PLEASE NOTE that now, even more and more people are buying raw mangas just for the sake of love of a specific mangka or art work. This was not the case 3 years ago. If they are so righteous and cooperative in their act why are they not HIRING PROFESSIONAL TRANSLATORS TO TRANSLATE THESE SO CALLED DIGITAL MANAGS??????….SIMPLE……BECAUSE THAT WILL COST THEM A LOT. THEY WILL HAVE TO HIRE AND PAY THESE TRANSLATORS IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE LAW and this is NOT what they are INTENDING TO DO. Thefore, why not offer these Fresh and naive translators who are already doing this great job and squeeze every last drop of their talent in promising to pay them for their work IF THEY are able to achieve a certain profit from it. WELL who will decide this certain profit level????
    People and KIDS do not have that much amount of money in this recession to pay for such entertainment. And will not, which eventually will lead to people turning their interest to somewhere and something that they can actually afford.

    [Reply to this comment]

  • [...] week, the website The Yaoi Review caught word of a "secret project" and confirmed the details with Sasahara: The company would publish manga online only (at least at [...]

  • As many ppl are saying there are many issues that have to be worked out between DMP and the scanlators and all of that should be made clear to the fandom. I will say it’s hard to work if you don’t know if your going to get paid.

    I do agree that this would work better for doujinshi titles and titles that would not be profitable in book form. I have all of Maki Murakami’s Gravitation Remix books and would love to see somethng like that translated or Riki the Breeder, which we know will never get licensed. I would just hope that DMP or any American published would still print books. I too am a lover of books and no matter what is down the digital road that will never change for me. But to get more quality yaoi titles I’m willing to read some on my computer

    And obviously the material should not be restricted to any one device. I don’t have an ereader or ipad and probably never will unless that kind of device gets a lot cheaper. I’m sure someone can come up with a digital reading device (that you can read anything on) for $100 or less.

    As for OTRK #5, I read on June’s forum site that there’s reason for the holdup of this volume but I forgot what it is, sorry ^_^. Anyway the mod said they will be publishing it. Obviously if your a scanlator or translator there’s alot to think about.

    Now I must go to bed -_- this lively discussion has kept me up past my bed time.

    [Reply to this comment]

  • [...] work by The Yaoi Review, which caught news of Digital’s “secret project” to hire scanlators on spec to translate them. In a followup post, Digital prez Hikaru Sasahara [...]

  • [...] over in the man-on-man side of the manga world, Jennifer LeBlanc at The Yaoi Review.com dug around a little and discovered that a Japanese manga publisher is doing exactly that: [Digital [...]

  • [...] : ANN, The Yaoi Review AKPC_IDS += [...]

  • I don’t have the courage to read everything, but I think from what I did read that I got the main point. I’m not a scanlator, nor an editor. As ‘client’ (leecher like we say) I do buy most of the manga scanlated I loved, when they come out in my country. A plus for the scanlators work. But I do’ not feel like paying at all for amateur translations and editing. Unless it’s on pro-level, but not all scanlators an offer that. DMP can be a good idea, although I must admit they’re also just trying to make profit of the situation. I read somewhere a scanlator saying he wouldn’t mind if the profits groups like mangafox manage to make were to be payed to the artists and the rightful ppl (so a sharing comm, where the revenues would be payed to the artists). Of course I don’t think the publishers would ever do something like that, but that seems one of the nicest solutions I’ve read so far though…

    [Reply to this comment]

    Jennifer LeBlanc AKA Asami's Girl Reply:

    “although I must admit they’re also just trying to make profit of the situation”

    Well, that IS the point of running a business. No profit means no business. It’s not evil to make money, ya know. ;-)

    [Reply to this comment]

  • [...] Lähteet: Mangahelpers, Manga.about.com, ANN, The Yaoi Review [...]

  • [...] started as a rumor over the weekend from The Yaoi Review and then found confirmation by the end of the week. Digital Manga Publishing is looking into an [...]

  • Yup! But that wasn’t really my main point (just me being cross at ppl who’ll make even more mony while they have so much already ;) ) I’m not sure if we would have to pay for what they offer us, or if they’d just put adds and pay everything that way, but I’m sure, if they do make us pay for it, the publishers do realise it’s not fair to do so while they can’t guarantee quality.
    Oh well, we’ll see what’ll happen. I do think it’s fair to pay mangaka for their work, it’s just annoying to do so when you’re not convinced of the goods (stories+translation+editing) you realise you bought. I just read the most crappy story and translation ever just now, and I wouldn’t ever want to pay for something like that for example, while if it was translated by a pro, maybe the story wouldn’t have been that bad…

    [Reply to this comment]

  • I’ve only read half of the replies here, this is very interesting stuff here. I’ve always wanted to translate manga. But get paid of course :)

    Cutting to the chase tho, in the original post it says something about a panel about this at the Anime Expo. I’d love to listen in on it, but anyone know the details of when and where? I’ve looked over the events directory and there are no details about times and locations.

    [Reply to this comment]

  • [...] can read more about the original discussion surrounding this project on the website, The Yaoi Review, including a follow-up response from the company [...]

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